1:59 lap time in a Mustang at CW13 (Buttonwillow Clockwise #13). I purposely didn't say "in an S197 Mustang 4.6L 3valve" or "in an S550 Mustang GT" or any other flavor of Mustang. That fact is to me the most interesting thing about this statement.
It's probably much more obvious for those drivers who actually track their cars than for guys like me who dream about it and "internet bench race" about tracking a car. That fact is that, the number of variables that determine your personal fastest laps at a track are "infinity and beyond"!
Here's a few of those variables I've observed Brent deal with in his now 12 track days in the Red Baron.
-Weather: (cold vs hot days, cold means more engine power, cooler temps for the engine and brakes, intake air, less tire grip, etc. Hot days mean more grip (up to a point, then tires get greasy), but more heat soak to the engine, brakes, cooling system, driver, intake air is hotter meaning less hp)
-Condition of your critical components: Worn or new brakes, tires, clutch, engine, etc.
-Other drivers: Peer pressure to push harder because your friend is driving with you, comparing yourself to other cars, trying to turn faster laps
-Yourself: Pressure you put on yourself to go faster, beat your previous best. We're usually our own worst enemy. Your skill level, your experience with pushing cars in general, your experience pushing the car you are tracking to the limit, your understanding of physics, skills in car control, etc. THIS IS THE BIGGEST SINGLE VARIABLE!
-What car you drive: This may sound like the biggest variable that determines how fast you go, but I'm trying to point out that it really is not. See below!
-The modifications to your car: I think this is an important variable and maybe more important than the car you're driving. See below! Things like drivers controls/touch points (drivers seat, steering wheel, shifter, pedals), parts that effect the handing (tires, brakes, suspension), aerodynamics and of course power mods (maybe the least important of the mods?).
I think these categories above cover the key areas that determine your success and improvement in lap times. For this post, I wanted to showcase something that is very interesting to me and probably to many out there:
What car should you buy as your starting point for a street / track car? (Which Mustang should you guy?)
In one way, it really doesn't matter which car you pick (heard of "24 hours of Lemons"?). In another, this is the fun part of the track car process; so of course we over think it, we research it to death, we agonize over the pros and cons of all our options. Or is that just me? Selecting the car you want to turn into a track car does depend on your budget and what exactly you're trying to accomplish.
For me, I have a tight budget and I want a v8, rear wheel drive, manual transmission "muscle sports car" to be my daily driver and sometimes-track car/autox car.
So, if you are into muscle sports cars (notice I added a word), or shall I say, rear wheel drive, V8 powered sports coupes, then the Mustang is one of 2 options in my mind (the other is Camaro. I don't consider the Challenger a real option). Mustangs and Camaros from the last 10-15 years are much more like sports cars than they ever have been and can be fast, successful road course cars that can be driven on the street. Hence, I've added "sports" to the "muscle car" genre. Let's look at the Mustang specifically in this post.
We are entering the 7th generation of Mustang after 60 years. To quickly summarize, we have:
Gen 1: 1964 - 1972 Classic Mustang (GT, GT350, Mach 1, Boss 302, etc)
Gen 2: 1973-1978 Mustang II (who cares? LOLOL)
Gen 3: 1979-1993 Fox body Mustang (GT, Cobra, SVO)
Gen 4: 1994-2004 SN95/New Edge Mustang (GT Cobra, Terminator Cobra, Mach1, Bullit)
Gen 5: 2005-2014 S197 Mustang (3v 4.6L, 5.0 Coyote, GT, GT500, Boss 302, Bullit)
Gen 6: 2015-2023 S550 Mustang (GT, Bullit, GT350, GT500, Mach1)
Gen 7: 2024-2029 S650 Mustang (GT, Dark Horse, ???)
That was a lot of fun actually to search out and pick a Mustang to represent an entire generation. Of course, these aren't necessarily the top dogs in each generation (except for maybe the '65 GT350 ha) but a car that I could reasonably obtain and build into a fun street/track car.
I've gotten very sidetracked from the focus of this post haha.
The point here is, you could pick any of these generations of Mustang and make them a fun street/track car. To make that point, I'll just pick 2 generations and show you a comparison of 2 pretty different cars with 2 good drivers.
In the red corner, we have Red Baron, a Gen 5, S197 Mustang GT with the 4.6L 3valve engine and 5 speed transmission. Brent and his Baron have gone as fast as a 1:59.3 lap time at CW13. Last night Brent and I summarized all the modifications and the cost to build the car (so far). The car was purchased used for $9000 with about 100k miles about 4 years ago (this is a record eh Brent?). As I look locally, that's in the range I'm seeing for similar 2005-09 GTs here in Utah. The modifications totaled about $16k, with the total about $25,000. See the list below.
In the blue corner, we have Mark Jager's, Gen 6, S550 Mustang GT with the Gen 2 5.0L coyote and MT82 6 speed transmission. I found Mark's car and the basic mods (probably not every single mod like what we did with Brent's car) listed on the @sub2club Instagram page. From the post you can see this car has gone 1:59.067.
I took a shot at summarizing the cost to build Jager's S550. Here's his list posted on sub2club's Insta.
I made an assumption of about $30k to purchase a used 2015-2017 Mustang GT. Then I searched online for prices of the mods listed. The mods totaled $19,211. The total was just under $50k for the car and mods. Yowzer!
I need to mention, as part of the background and context of this discussion, Mark Jager, per the same Insta post has done a 1:41 lap at CW13 in an 800hp STi. What I'm trying to show is that we have to assume that Mark is a pretty good driver. 1:41 is a VERY FAST lap at CW13. Very Fast! Also, to go that fast, Mark likely has many track days and laps at this track to be able to go that fast in any car. (P.S. Insta-stalking Mark I can see he also races a Miata, so I'm confident when I consider him an experience driver)
Brent has done 6ea CW13 Track days so far (he's done 5 at Streets of Willow and 1 at Big Willow for reference). So, I'm going to assume that Brent has WAY less laps on this track than Mark. I think most will agree with that assumption.
Now, the other assumption I would have made before this analysis is that an S550 GT is going to be much faster than a S197 GT 3V. I mean, wouldn't you? Cars are progressing and getting faster all the time!
One way I like to compare cars is the power:weight ratio. So, let's look at that really quick.
Mark's S550: 3700lbs and 435hp (with his mods, we can estimate 450-460hp (intake, catback, tune, light driveshaft). 3700/455hp = 8.13lbs/hp
Brent's S197: 3300lbs and 300hp (with his mods, dyno'd at 344whp (410hp). 3300hp/395hp = 8.35lbs/hp.
Brent's mods definitely close the gap on power (very slight edge to Mark's S550) and the fact that Brent's car is 400lbs lighter than an S550 is also important, not only for the power:weight ratio but the benefits to handing and braking. Considering Red Baron has the same width tires but with 400lbs less to move around is going to really help the lap times. Note: A quick math calculation shows that 10hp more for Brent and they have the same 8.14 p:w ratio. That's really nothing at all.
Another variable here is Brent has done his own aero parts; which include a rear spoiler, front splitter and canards. Of course, aero parts really only start coming into play on the higher speed corners, which is only at certain parts of the track, so its difficult to know the impact the aero has here, but besides Brent's time and some materials, he spent WAY less than the $5k that Mark spent on his aero parts.
So, 2 pretty skilled drivers, 2 Mustangs with similar power:weight ratios, 2 pretty different Mustangs (IRS vs solid rear, 5.0L 4v vs 4.6L 3v cammed, 5 speed vs 6 speed) and 1 costs about double the other.
Yet, the lap times at a track, where the lap is on the longer side, are identical. There are many variables that we just don't know, like weather/temperatures, tire life, etc to really be apples:to:apples, but this is the best we have.
So, what is my conclusion or summary or "so what" about all of this comparison and information. Well, I've been very back and forth on what car to get next and if it was to be a Mustang, which one? Since the S550 came out in late 2014, I was all over it. I was very pouty on my 40th birthday (sorry babe!) 5 years ago now because I was really wanting, some how, some way, to get an S550 Mustang GT for my 40th birthday. When the 2018 Perf Pack 2 came out, that became my next dream car. Then the Mach1 came out and it had all the GT350 handing/track parts but with the more regular-Joe coyote and I wanted/want it bad! The fact is, I just don't have S550 money right now.
What this shows me is that, a 2005-2010 S197 3v 4.6L car with the right mods and a solid driver (not sure that's me, only 1 way to find out eh?!) can be very very close to a S197/S550 coyote Mustang but without having to spend nearly as many total dollars. There are just so many variables to consider. The higher power coyote cars come with more weight than the 4.6L cars. The IRS vs Solid Rear Axle argument I think is debunked here as well. Sure, the IRS is probably more comfortable on the street and easier to drive on track than SRA, but if its better, its not very significant.
The other explanation for why Brent's car is so fast could be Brent. It's really hard to compare drivers, especially when they're driving different cars. But, I've been on Touge runs with Brent in a few Mustangs through the years and he is able to push the car much harder than me. Pushing a car to its limits takes guts and skill and experience. Developing all of those is part of the fun!
So, there you have it, my Mustang Dissertation LOLOL I hope you enjoyed it!
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